S2E13: Dealing With Loss

Uncorrected Transcript

[0:00] 00:00:00.080" data-end="00:00:05.086">90 Miles from Needles is brought to you by generous support from people just like you.
00:00:06.217" data-end="00:00:11.441">You can join our rags by going to 90milesfromneedles.com slash donate.
00:00:12.207" data-end="00:00:14.977">Hey y'all, thanks for joining us here at 90 Miles from Needles.
00:00:17.131">0:15">I'm Chris. 0:16">And I'm Alicia.
00:00:18.417" data-end="00:00:25.257">And we are sitting under a giant boulder, sort of like slugs, in a sun-washed canyon 00:00:31.489">And somewhere in the Mojave Desert, that is an extremely important place to a lot of tribes, 00:00:32.617" data-end="00:00:35.270">0:33">we're going to not say exactly where it is.
00:00:36.157" data-end="00:00:44.912">It's really easy to find if you do a little research. 0:39">We've come here in part because it has been a while since we put out a podcast.
00:00:45.457" data-end="00:00:46.856">It's been a little over a month.
00:00:47.537" data-end="00:00:54.897">0:48">It's longer than we like to go. 0:51">And all I can say is our lives have been pretty complicated.
00:00:57.056">0:55">There's a lot of stuff going on for me at work.
00:00:58.537" data-end="00:01:01.548">0:59">Some of it extremely rewarding, other pieces of it not so much.

[1:03] 00:01:03.257" data-end="00:01:08.084">And then Alicia has been having some interesting times in her life as well.
00:01:10.316">1:09">I've been going through a divorce.
00:01:11.537">My cat died.
00:01:12.000" data-end="00:01:15.817">I moved. 1:13">My whole life is upside down.
00:01:16.737" data-end="00:01:23.777">1:17">But it's really good to come to this place. 1:19">There's just this sense of surpassing calm underneath the buzzing of the flies and the 00:01:29.777">1:24">The flies are flying, and the rocks are rocking, and the cacti are cacti-ing.
00:01:35.685">1:30">And whatever you brought with you falls away at the gates when you pass through. Yep.

[1:36] 2:05" data-start="00:01:35.760" data-end="00:02:04.880">Music.

[2:05] 00:02:09.110">Hey, here we are back in the studio. 2:07">You might be wondering why we went all the way out 00:02:15.475">to Southern Nevada to record some audio on what has been 2:14">bringing us down lately.
00:02:17.068">2:16">And there are two reasons for that.
00:02:18.129" data-end="00:02:24.609">One is that this episode of the podcast 2:21">is pretty late, because we have been living complicated lives.
00:02:30.109">2:25">And it's a way of explaining to you what's been going on 2:28">and why you haven't had a podcast 00:02:31.274">episode in the last month.
00:02:38.969">But also, with all the bad news that is following us wherever we go, we have instant access 00:02:43.562">2:39">these days to all the bad news of the world in our pockets at all times.
00:02:44.209" data-end="00:02:50.729">We're all gonna be grieving something, whether that is news out of the Middle East, or news 00:02:57.889">2:51">out of Ukraine, or news out of Arizona, conversion of landscapes into shopping malls or parking 00:03:04.089">2:58">lots or solar facilities or lithium mines or whatever it may be, we're going to have 00:03:10.049">to figure out how to navigate this kind of feeling and continue to function if we're 00:03:15.169">going to do anything about making sure the world stays as livable as possible for us 00:03:19.634">people and all the critters and plants that we share this planet with.

[3:21] 00:03:20.651" data-end="00:03:30.770">Way to wrap it all up, Chris. 3:23">I don't know. I just feel like we're getting further and further from recognizing the importance of going to nature.
00:03:31.670" data-end="00:03:38.449">3:32">With all of these other pressing issues in the world, it's so easy to just forget about signing that petition or, 00:03:42.707">3:39">getting in the car and taking your dogs to that favorite dog-friendly trail.
00:03:49.261">3:43">And the world can just slow you down into a literal state that they call dorsal vagal 00:03:53.941">where you are dissociating because life is just too overwhelming.
00:03:54.641" data-end="00:04:01.781">3:55">And all you can do is scroll or watch TV or eat, just shut down.
00:04:06.617">4:02">And that's something that I feel like we just can't ignore in society anymore.
00:04:07.641" data-end="00:04:14.121">4:08">It's something that we're all facing with just the state of our society and the world.
00:04:18.281">4:15">And we often face that in our own personal lives.
00:04:23.748">4:19">And going out into nature is therapeutic. It is healing.
00:04:24.341" data-end="00:04:30.563">It is, to me, necessary to survive the stress of life, to have that place to go.

[4:32] 00:04:31.741" data-end="00:04:38.901">So many places to go. 4:33">I feel so blessed living in such an expansive patch of desert that has been fiercely fought 00:04:40.051">4:39">for and protected.
00:04:45.993">4:41">And there it is for me to just run away to whenever I just need to balance my chemicals.
00:04:46.921" data-end="00:04:49.846">4:47">I'm sorry, what did you say? 4:48">I was dissociating. Mm-hmm.
00:04:50.377" data-end="00:04:56.801">Grief is tied into our work advocating for the conservation of desert lands because on 00:05:02.321">4:57">a very surface level, there's, it seems, a lot more battles lost than won.
00:05:14.401">5:03">And what do we do when we suffer that grief? 5:06">We always return to nature, philosophically, literally, figuratively, ashes to ashes, dust to dust.
00:05:15.988" data-end="00:05:21.001">5:16">Yeah, I'm reminded of something that David Brower used to like to say.
00:05:26.201">And for those of our listeners who are under age 30, David Brower is somebody I used to 00:05:30.721">work with who was a famous environmentalist and look him up.
00:05:32.858">5:31">He wasn't a perfect guy, but he was pretty inspiring.
00:05:33.561" data-end="00:05:40.441">5:34">But he used to say that the problem with working on the environment is that our victories are 00:05:43.184">always temporary and our losses are always permanent.

[5:44] 00:05:44.201" data-end="00:05:47.601">When you think about all the different ways in which the desert is threatened, it can 00:05:54.770">5:48">be really overwhelming and you can forget that you have occasional victories just because 00:05:57.321">5:55">the scale of the work that needs to be done is so big.
00:06:01.567">And that's really one of the things that has been immobilizing me lately.
00:06:02.241" data-end="00:06:09.254">This is probably as good a time to mention as any that I have given notice at my day 6:10">job.
00:06:10.081" data-end="00:06:17.641">The amount of threats to the desert is just staggering and disconcerting, and I needed 6:16">to not live in it.

[6:19] 00:06:18.608" data-end="00:06:25.338">In that stream of bad news 24-7-365 anymore. 6:24">Still going to be working on bad news, 00:06:28.573">because this is a journalistic enterprise here, this podcast.
00:06:29.330" data-end="00:06:35.858">But we can at least shape the way 6:33">that we talk about the bad news to emphasize 00:06:38.575">6:36">what you can do about each of these issues that we bring.
00:06:45.138">6:39">That's going off down a rabbit hole a little bit. 6:41">What I'm trying to say is that doom scrolling leads 00:06:49.738">to heart attacks and strokes and yelling at your dog.
00:06:50.620" data-end="00:06:55.202">6:51">It's just not a healthy way to live. 6:53">We need to know what's going on in the world.
00:06:59.578">6:56">And it's easier than ever to know 6:58">what's going on in the world.
00:07:01.810">7:00">So we also need to know when to tune out.
00:07:02.538" data-end="00:07:07.978">7:03">The hardest part about grief and a lot of the topics 7:06">that we're covering in this episode 00:07:10.098">7:08">is that it all boils down to change.
00:07:13.978">And humans really struggle with change. 7:12">It's scary. We're anxious of it happening.
00:07:13.978" data-end="00:07:19.258">7:14">When it comes, we reprogramming and reorienting and recovering and moving on.
00:07:26.498">7:20">There's so much involved in change. 7:22">And how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time?
00:07:29.418">7:27">An elephant like that, you don't eat all at once.

[7:30] 00:07:30.356" data-end="00:07:36.937">I don't know. 7:31">Somehow change always drives innovation. 7:35">Change drives growth.
00:07:37.864" data-end="00:07:46.632">7:38">Change is a very powerful force. 7:42">And when change comes, you're best to heed the call.
00:07:50.233">7:47">We are in a position where we are losing entire landscapes.
00:07:57.804">7:51">And that can cause grief, it can cause shock, it can cause dislocation of the way you see yourself in your life.
00:07:58.173" data-end="00:08:02.359">That's certainly what I've been feeling about the Dome Fire and the York Fire that followed it.
00:08:05.933">8:03">Burning one of the most beautiful places in my life.
00:08:06.842" data-end="00:08:13.838">8:07">One of the most important places to me in my life story. 8:10">And this is a landscape that is not accustomed to fire.
00:08:14.053" data-end="00:08:16.838">So it is going to be forever changed by that fire.
00:08:17.780" data-end="00:08:22.092">8:18">But it isn't just about wild landscapes or even literal landscapes that we're talking.
00:08:24.878">We can be talking about the loss of a place.
00:08:25.162" data-end="00:08:28.718">Some of the losses you've had recently, that is the same thing.
00:08:35.586">8:29">Basically, it could be a landscape of picturing yourself 8:32">living with a cat for more years than you got.
00:08:36.388" data-end="00:08:39.238">Could be a landscape of how you pictured your life would go.
00:08:43.697">8:40">For me, I adore quite a few different philosophies, but.

[8:45] 00:08:44.814" data-end="00:08:50.744">And they helped me get through stuff like that. But the most powerful piece of advice that I use 00:08:58.104">8:51">is the last vestige of our freedom is to choose how we react to any given set of circumstances.

[8:59] 00:08:59.478" data-end="00:09:07.544">It is where freedom lies. It is so easy to blame our pain on the state of war or the world or 00:09:14.424">9:08">whatever. But right there deep down inside of us is when my cat disappeared, I did everything I 00:09:18.624">could to find her but you've got to use your inner strength. I don't even know 00:09:25.224">9:19">what I'm trying to say but it's to not let something destroy you. To not let 00:09:29.584">9:26">your pain take away your will to live, your will to eat, your will to function.
00:09:30.194" data-end="00:09:41.664">It's the greatest triumph that we can overcome in grief and it applies to 9:35">everything. How we decide to respond and I'm gonna respond with love because love 00:09:48.144">9:42">is to me it seems humans love to commodify things and love is one of those things that 00:09:53.064">you can't put a price on. It's free and it's priceless. It's the most valuable 00:10:00.766">thing on earth. Balm for the soul. And my love for nature is a balm when I go there.
00:10:01.664" data-end="00:10:05.771">10:02">Give me that serotonin. Give me those endorphins because I need them now.
00:10:06.275" data-end="00:10:13.784">Well said. Why don't we head back out to a week ago and that beautiful canyon where we 00:10:18.864">10:14">sat and discussed things and hear a little bit more of what came to mind then.
00:10:20.104">10:19">Let's get back on trail.

[10:21] 10:52" data-start="00:10:21.040" data-end="00:10:51.760">Music.

[10:52] 00:10:57.430">It's really good to come to this place. There's just this sense of surpassing calm underneath the 00:11:04.310">buzzing of the flies and the bees. The flies are flying and the rocks are rocking and the 00:11:10.380">cacti are cacti-ing. And whatever you brought with you falls away at the gates when you pass through.
00:11:16.230">11:11">Yep. At least that's how it felt for me. I feel like this is something we're getting further and 00:11:21.777">further away from as a people, as society pushes us into, 00:11:23.092" data-end="00:11:27.701">productive terraformed environments where we're just cogs in a machine.
00:11:29.537" data-end="00:11:40.907">11:30">This is part of the cycle to be here. This space has been devalued 11:37">by colonial attitudes, capitalistic attitudes.
00:11:41.942" data-end="00:11:50.296">11:42">If there isn't something to extract or exploit here, 11:47">then what value does it have? And.

[11:52] 00:11:52.358" data-end="00:12:03.872">In times of grief, in times of joy, in times of contemplation, in times of 12:00">sadness, in times of celebration, 00:12:04.889" data-end="00:12:08.904">12:05">there's nowhere I'd rather be. It feels so good here.
00:12:10.209" data-end="00:12:18.950">Nature provides. It is in us to be drawn to places like this. Our minds have electric energy, 00:12:24.710">12:19">our hearts have magnetic energy, and so do the rocks, so does the water, so does this earth.
00:12:36.710">12:25">Everything in this space we're in now feels so natural and easy. The body responds.

[12:40] 00:12:39.791" data-end="00:12:45.795">There's something so spookily calming about this place.
00:12:47.981" data-end="00:12:53.481">12:48">It's like a knowing and a feeling. 12:51">You know this place is special.
00:12:56.175">It's been made apparent for a lot of different reasons.
00:13:01.801">12:57">You don't need all the signs that thousands of years of humans have left to see the water 00:13:08.081">13:02">source, the grape vines, the shade, the bounty of everything else that's growing in this 00:13:17.121">area and then that feeling of calmness you know I'm not I mean I'm calm today 00:13:24.019">but I still feel a lot of emotional turmoil and even my tears dried up way, 00:13:30.601">13:25">quicker out here than they did in the car I don't know there's something that 00:13:35.081">13:31">feels really good here and I don't need to have an explanation why so can you 00:13:39.080">Can you see so clearly how that boulder unplugged from that spot?

[13:41] 00:13:41.402" data-end="00:13:48.217">Yep. I'm going to guess that that joint would have been receiving a lot of different, or 00:13:53.641">a couple, and then it started working down that face and then created a perforation and, 00:13:54.168" data-end="00:13:56.641">just let's go.
00:13:57.831">That's what that looks like to me.
00:13:58.961" data-end="00:14:04.181">13:59">We often feel like that's so permanent, the boulders around us, or it takes eons for them 00:14:09.805">to get the way they are. And that's true, but only once has one of my regular routes 00:14:10.183" data-end="00:14:15.981">had a big chunk of rock just move suddenly. It's like the one time it was there and the 00:14:22.301">14:16">next time I showed up it had slid down canyon. And I just think it's the coolest thing to 00:14:25.315">get to see some of that action in action.
00:14:26.054" data-end="00:14:31.741">I like that cliff collapse at Black's Beach. When was that, last year?
00:14:38.900">14:32">Growing up in San Diego that was a regular occurrence, bus-sized chunks of 14:37">glyph coming down, but that...

[14:41] 00:14:40.556" data-end="00:14:46.406">I am so grateful that we can record events because that's not something you want to hear about, you 00:14:53.286">want to see. It was epic and the likelihood that I'm ever going to be in the right place at the 00:15:01.046">right time for a boulder to on its own go sliding down, so rare. And I'm not going to 00:15:07.239">be the one who nudges it either because that doesn't count. I have to say that thinking about 00:15:15.206">15:08">that kind of thing in the larger scale of time than we are used to seeing the scale 00:15:18.406">of time in which these boulders are basically liquid and flowing downhill.
15:19">Right.
00:15:20.436" data-end="00:15:26.486">That's also a really good thing to think about it if you're, I don't know, mourning the loss 00:15:28.806">of almost 100,000 acres that burned up.
00:15:29.943" data-end="00:15:34.806">15:30">The York Fire has taken out almost 100,000 acres of Mojave Desert.
00:15:35.290" data-end="00:15:40.709">It will grow back in one form or another, but it won't be the way it was.
00:15:41.376" data-end="00:15:46.651">And I haven't even really dealt with the impact of the 2020 Dome Fire.
00:15:47.713" data-end="00:15:49.541">15:48">And here's one more than twice as big already.
00:15:50.972" data-end="00:15:54.213">15:51">Imagining that, yeah, that used to be a volcano field. Yeah.

[15:56] 00:15:56.265" data-end="00:16:06.146">It was all on fire at once and devoid of life. 16:00">There used to be camels and saber-toothed cats and ground sloths and cave bears and 00:16:07.986">American lions walking around in there.
00:16:08.986" data-end="00:16:12.926">16:09">Don't forget about the American cheetah. 16:11">And the cheetahs, yep.
00:16:20.923">16:13">Because that apex predator is where our beloved pronghorn developed its speed.
00:16:22.588" data-end="00:16:28.006">16:23">Yep. I thought that was the most interesting scientific story at the time, that they sorted that out.
00:16:29.664">Like, why can it run so fast?
00:16:34.345">16:30">Why did it need to develop the skill set to run 60 miles an hour?
00:16:35.206" data-end="00:16:39.629">How cool that their predator went extinct and they got to keep going.
00:16:42.204">16:40">Lucky. 16:41">They still have predators, though.
00:16:44.815">16:43">Yeah, it's like an orphan trait.
00:16:45.958" data-end="00:16:50.198">16:46">Like what people say with Joshua tree fruit and seed dispersal in a sloth, even though, 00:16:51.233" data-end="00:16:53.006">it's conjecture. 16:52">Right.
00:16:54.375" data-end="00:16:59.006">Conjecture that makes a lot of sense, you know? All these things that are evidence 00:17:05.187">of times extremely long ago by our normal everyday human standards.

[17:07] 00:17:07.086" data-end="00:17:13.237">Like 12,000 years at a minimum. 17:10">And I don't know, it's a weird kind of consolation 00:17:17.025">to think of myself as a spark, 00:17:18.357" data-end="00:17:23.218">that doesn't last very long compared to the rocks 17:20">and the, hell, even some of the plants.
00:17:24.731" data-end="00:17:30.657">17:25">It means that the stuff I'm sad about is also just a spark. 17:29">Well, that's where I come back to, 00:17:35.452">17:31">from a spirituality standpoint, 17:33">that we're all made of the same matter.
00:17:36.470" data-end="00:17:41.217">Anything, any matter that you miss, or any matter that matters to you, it matters, all 00:17:44.428">our matter matters together because we are the same matter.
00:17:49.117">I am made up of the same material as those rocks, that's why I love them so much.
00:17:56.626">For me that seems to be the connection, but you don't have to feel that way for this to 17:55">be true. It's true.
00:17:57.346" data-end="00:18:05.977">We're all made of universe recycled material. 18:02">The word isylem, Y-L-E-M, that's the technical term, 00:18:06.753" data-end="00:18:09.157">18:07">for the recycled matter of the universe 18:08">that we're all made up of.

[18:09] 00:18:09.157" data-end="00:18:13.109">And this guy, fucking growing right out of a rock.
00:18:14.417" data-end="00:18:18.681">In apparently permanent shade. 18:17">It's on the north face of the boulder.
00:18:20.777" data-end="00:18:25.897">18:21">Of course, that might not be a bad thing around here. 18:23">We've seen some beautiful examples of persistence 00:18:28.350">18:26">in the face of adversity today.
00:18:29.259" data-end="00:18:34.477">Yeah. 18:30">On our walk in the wash earlier, 18:31">that little three-foot section of root rope 00:18:37.717">coming out of the side of the bank 18:36">and the plant still alive, 00:18:42.087">18:38">hanging there like a glory bell, 18:40">all decorated with flowers.
00:18:43.077" data-end="00:18:48.803">It's a wonderful reminder that 18:46">if you can keep on, keep on keeping on.

[18:51] 00:18:51.237" data-end="00:18:58.813">Another thing that nature really helps me to see 18:55">all the time is, you know, starting over again.
00:18:59.697" data-end="00:19:05.537">19:00">Everything has to start over again. 19:02">And I feel like our minds get in the way 00:19:10.003">19:06">of how easy it really is. 19:07">We tend to kid ourselves and think, 19:09">oh, it's so hard.
00:19:12.380">You have to start all over again.
00:19:13.262" data-end="00:19:16.417">No matter what that situation is 19:15">that you're starting over from, 00:19:19.222">that's a real challenge.
00:19:20.320" data-end="00:19:26.000">But out here, I'm constantly reminded, 19:24">so what if it takes a decade?
00:19:31.078">That's how long it takes, and that's okay, 19:29">Because life is a coming, you know?
00:19:36.577">19:32">And that's, it can be painfully reassuring 19:35">when you think about the decade, Mark, 00:19:42.276">19:37">like the Saguaros, like the tortoise. 19:39">They take a decade to get anywhere meaningful to survive.
00:19:49.829">19:43">An inch of growth, a hard shell, and reproductive rights. 19:47">You've gotta wait, and you might not make it, 00:19:50.057" data-end="00:19:51.522">and that's just the way it is.
00:19:52.836" data-end="00:19:54.528">19:53">And that's just the way it is.
00:19:56.527" data-end="00:20:00.537">19:57">And hey, you might make it, and you might turn into an icon of the desert.

[20:03] 00:20:02.892" data-end="00:20:10.377">I feel like I've been swimming in bad memories for a while now. It's exhausting.
00:20:12.128" data-end="00:20:18.297">But here I don't feel like I'm treading water. I feel like I'm out of the water.

[20:20] 00:20:20.284" data-end="00:20:24.057">I'm sitting, I don't want to say I'm sitting on the beach because that sounds entirely way too 00:20:29.257">pleasant but this is pretty pleasant having a hard-boiled egg picnic out in 00:20:34.210">the desert with little buddy. Yeah. Talking about life and the stars just 00:20:45.017">20:35">about as good as it gets really no matter what you had to swim through to 20:40">get here. Had a couple of good moments today but I'm not feel like I'm really 00:20:50.217">running running circles around this grief issue. Just kind of not getting too 00:20:56.977">close you know. Yeah as you try and figure out how to live your life with 00:21:01.057">20:57">the grief being part of it you don't want to be stuck in it all the time you 00:21:06.617">also don't want to ignore it. No there's a lot of generational trauma in every 00:21:17.718">21:07">family well maybe not every family but that we overlook so easily what our 21:13">ancestors went through to get to where we are today and the way that those 00:21:23.897">21:18">things get passed down and shape our worldview without our knowledge. We're just certain 00:21:31.497">21:24">ways because that's the way our family is. And I feel like there's a real loss to the 00:21:33.751">21:32">connection of family. When I was growing up, it...

[21:36] 00:21:35.858" data-end="00:21:41.448">Classic teenagers, you know, didn't...teenagers didn't want to have anything to do with their parents.
00:21:45.085">21:42">They didn't want to learn about their parents, didn't care what their parents did.
00:21:50.708">You know, had their own ideas about, you know, kids growing up on the farm and wanting to run away to the city.
00:21:54.208">21:51">You know, it was very clear to me, you know, we have this choice.
00:21:57.913">We don't have to do what we're told. We can do whatever we want.
00:21:58.282" data-end="00:22:05.488">And then as an adult now, I see that that's one of the breakdowns that has prevented the transfer.

[22:07] 00:22:06.718" data-end="00:22:11.597">Of that generational knowledge. We're not on the farm, we're not in our traditional places, 00:22:12.380" data-end="00:22:17.008">our roles where we got our names, those jobs are long gone, you know, our trades, everything that, 00:22:18.128" data-end="00:22:25.008">made us who we are today is kind of, in the last few generations, kind of just morphed rather 00:22:31.208">quickly. Yeah. That disconnect, there's a lot of grief for me in that because I 00:22:44.716">know that I have very strong family connections to earth and to to life on 22:38">earth. And there were so many times in the last decade that I just wished I 00:22:50.848">22:45">could talk to a grandparent because I know my mom's mom would have been great 00:22:51.063" data-end="00:22:55.908">when I was struggling to raise the young German shepherds or, you know, working 00:22:59.848">22:56">with horses many years ago, it was like, God, I wish she was around so I could ask 00:23:04.528">23:00">her what she would do. Whether I would do that or not doesn't matter. To have 00:23:13.928">23:05">access to that knowledge. We're having children later, so parents and 23:10">grandparents are dead and gone by the time kids are, like, everything is 00:23:14.010" data-end="00:23:20.688">breaking down to keep that verbal, oral passing down is fading. It's really 00:23:27.153">23:21">tragic that we can't read ourselves to discover what connections we have ancestrally, what.

[23:28] 00:23:28.168" data-end="00:23:34.888">Specificities we have. What it really boils down to is what our gifts are. What we can 00:23:40.296">23:35">give. If you don't understand what you can give, how can you give anything? And that 00:23:48.839">can leave you feeling so fucking empty. Very empty. I don't know. Rant over. Joint lit.
00:23:49.848" data-end="00:23:54.187">23:50">I guess what we're saying is there's good news even if you're having a shitty time in your life.
00:23:55.928" data-end="00:24:02.136">23:56">There are ways you can help yourself by going outside. 23:59">If you're the kind of person that likes being outside, just remember to do it.
00:24:03.848" data-end="00:24:06.277">24:04">Whether it's in the desert or the redwood forest or the...

[24:08] 00:24:08.203" data-end="00:24:12.236">Beaches along the gulf coast 24:11">Getting outside couldn't hurt, 00:24:13.281" data-end="00:24:15.733">Unless you're here in the desert and it's August, 00:24:17.017" data-end="00:24:24.653">That'll hurt that could hurt 24:20">But even having an experience like that, I don't know. Maybe maybe it's maybe it's too much to say, 00:24:25.659" data-end="00:24:30.340">24:26">You should go do this because maybe it doesn't work for everybody, but it certainly works for me. I.

[24:32] 00:24:32.086" data-end="00:24:36.047">Think it's safe to say that nature is 24:35">healing, 00:24:37.128" data-end="00:24:47.253">nature is grounding, nature is soothing, just the sound of it, the colors of it, 00:24:48.803" data-end="00:25:03.013">24:49">just a practice of sitting on a bench and looking at a view and observing 24:56">those beautiful green shrubs, the beautiful tan expired blossoms. You don't have to know what 00:25:09.413">anything is. You can just appreciate the colors and that is good for your brain.
00:25:16.332">It is good for your body. All your cells vibrate differently when in nature.
00:25:17.404" data-end="00:25:23.053">They are happy here whether you are aware of it or not. The city is agitating 00:25:29.253">to your cells whether you realize it or not. You can love it. You can love being 00:25:40.273">agitated that's real but yeah just listening to it and looking at it you 25:35">don't even have to interact too hard I believe that it is healing and it is, 00:25:46.953">25:41">soothing and it's good for the body it's good for the soul even if you don't like, 00:25:48.300" data-end="00:25:50.993">it yeah I think having a practice like that where you sit down and just say 00:25:53.926">25:51">alright I'm just gonna enjoy the colors what colors do I see that I like it's, 00:25:55.473" data-end="00:25:57.698">It's gonna be hard to be a brat to yourself.
00:26:01.191">25:58">Like, I don't do anything that I like. 26:00">You know, who does?

[26:01] 27:26" data-start="00:26:01.200" data-end="00:27:26.160">Music.

[27:26] 00:27:30.991">Okay, we promised you some news about the podcast. We formed a non-profit organization 00:27:34.697">27:31">to be a home for the podcast. It is the Desert Advocacy Media Network.
00:27:35.345">Damn!
00:27:36.271" data-end="00:27:43.031">The acronym is DELIBERATE. And we also have made some changes in our own work lives that 00:27:47.871">are going to free up more time to work on this. We look forward to the next year. We're 00:27:52.871">27:48">going to do some amazing work. Going to get on the road and do some recording on location 00:27:57.751">27:53">in places like the Four Corners, or Southern Arizona, or Northern Nevada.
00:27:58.004" data-end="00:27:59.246">We're coming for you, Utah.
00:28:01.290">28:00">We need your help.

[28:02] 00:28:02.011" data-end="00:28:07.311">We are building something pretty great, and we would love it if you would join us. The 00:28:12.951">Desert Advocacy Media Network has so much work to do, and we can't do it alone. Join 00:28:22.111">28:13">us by email, by Patreon, by GiveButter, voice messages, podcast episode suggestions, music 00:28:25.871">contributions, whatever strikes your fancy. If you want to jump on board and 00:28:29.351">28:26">help us out, we're really open to hearing all of the ways you would love to help us.
00:28:30.070" data-end="00:28:34.951">We want to build this organization into the place that is the first place you 00:28:38.791">28:35">think of checking when you want to find out what's going on in the desert.
00:28:39.469" data-end="00:28:42.751">Wouldn't it be great if there was just a place where you knew you could find 00:28:47.431">28:43">information on everything that was going on in the desert? Not only a compendium 00:28:51.874">of current events, but a permanent resource site.
00:28:52.111" data-end="00:28:57.551">If we're going to do the job we want to do, it's going to be at least a halftime gig, 00:29:01.875">28:58">probably more. And it's just not sustainable to do that without having a budget to allow 00:29:02.191" data-end="00:29:07.196">us to be able to eat and pay rent or mortgage and just keep going on with our lives. Please 00:29:15.151">29:08">check us out. 90milesfromneedles.com slash donate. If you decide you want to raise funds 00:29:18.007">for us on your birthday on Facebook, you can do that.
00:29:23.531">Just search for Desert Advocacy Media Network 29:21">when you set up a fundraiser and it'll come to us.
00:29:24.300" data-end="00:29:29.971">We're going to do great things. 29:26">We are going to change the world with this podcast and you are going to help us do it.

[29:30] 30:32" data-start="00:29:30.000" data-end="00:30:32.240">Music.

[30:33] 00:30:40.639">Rohini Walker is a desert expatriate from the UK who is really reshaping the way a lot of people 00:30:47.919">30:41">in this part of the desert at least think about things like history and race and colonialism 00:30:55.359">30:48">and health and spirituality and she's just a marvelous person. We are lucky to have her as a 00:31:04.239">friend and she has some thoughts about trauma and nature and healing from wounds of whatever 00:31:09.799">kind physical, mental, emotional. And we wanted to share that with you.
00:31:10.356">Let's listen in.
00:31:11.031" data-end="00:31:17.359">Hi there, lovely listeners of 90 Miles from Needles. This is Rohini Walker in the high.

[31:18] 00:31:27.118">Desert in Joshua Tree with a commentary on trauma as culture. For me, the working definition.

[31:27] 00:31:27.334" data-end="00:31:34.239">Of trauma that's been the most clarifying is from the somatic therapeutic lens, that's 00:31:41.039">from the body and sensation-based therapy. And this looks at trauma as our body's reaction 00:31:48.399">to an incident rather than the incident itself. So when we're traumatized, our bodies become 00:31:54.159">flooded with adrenaline and cortisol, the stress hormones, which moves us and activates 00:32:00.639">us into fighting, fleeing, or freezing. And the reflexive reaction of fawning or appeasing 00:32:07.479">32:01">is also a trauma-induced response in response to relational threat. So the rush of these 00:32:13.379">chemicals is experienced as an intense energetic charge through our nervous 00:32:19.119">systems, including numbness, which is the presence of too much charge and 00:32:25.439">overwhelm. These trauma responses and the mobilization of stress hormones serve an 00:32:30.939">evolutionary purpose when our lives are in actual danger, like running from a 00:32:35.639">32:31">predator or being robbed or surviving abuse or swerving out of the way of an 00:32:42.599">32:36">oncoming vehicle. But they start causing disease and imbalance in our systems, collectively, 00:32:49.425">32:43">individually, when they become chronic, when they become culturally normalized in our bodies.

[32:50] 00:32:56.439">In our lives, and in society. We become traumatized when the impact of a trauma response, 00:33:03.118">the energetic charge, isn't resolved and released from our bodies and systems sufficiently and.

[33:04] 00:33:10.599">Remains frozen or sometimes inflamed in place, this eventually becomes an identity layer 00:33:15.289">33:11">from which we start to operate in the world, especially if we experience an event that, 00:33:16.504" data-end="00:33:20.897">evokes an uncomfortable feeling but is not actually threatening.

[33:22] 00:33:22.221" data-end="00:33:28.311">So when this happens we end up having less capacity, less space for life. We're not in 00:33:34.711">current time because physiologically and therefore unconsciously we're still looping on this stuck 00:33:41.271">33:35">energetic charge of a past traumatic episode. Essentially we just haven't fully processed and 00:33:47.351">integrated the experience and so on a biochemical level our bodies haven't realized that we've 00:33:54.629">survived it. And when calcified trauma like this becomes the structure of identities, 00:34:01.111">33:55">of beliefs and behaviors, and it's then unconsciously handed down from parent to child, 00:34:07.191">it becomes ancestral and intergenerational, creating the cultural context and patterns 00:34:14.311">of family life. Meanwhile, the artificial social, political and economic systems that we live in 00:34:20.551">and are currently in the process of evolving out of, I hope, also emerge from millennia-old 00:34:28.551">34:21">traumas of oppression, of enslavement, exploitation and genocide. One of the rawest wounds inflicted 00:34:35.271">34:29">by these systems is belief in the lie, the maladaptive lie, that we're separate from nature.

[34:36] 00:34:36.471" data-end="00:34:41.054">All of this ends up creating the dominant culture that we then become marinated in, 00:34:47.671">a culture that's built by generation after generation of humans interpreting the world 00:34:52.871">34:48">through the distortions of the trauma that's stuck in their bodies and in their nervous systems.

[34:54] 00:34:54.332" data-end="00:35:00.551">From this, we then unconsciously again create our own beliefs, our own meanings about ourselves, 00:35:05.991">35:01">the world, each other, which then unfold into our individual and collective experiences.

[35:08] 00:35:08.016" data-end="00:35:11.991">When you look at animals in the wild, however, they instinctively know how to 00:35:16.751">35:12">literally shake off the energetic charge after an event that caused a trauma response.
00:35:18.044" data-end="00:35:21.071">Observe a jackrabbit that's managed to escape from a coyote.
00:35:22.122" data-end="00:35:25.791">Once she's safely got away, she shakes her body to release the excess charge, 00:35:26.425" data-end="00:35:27.951">and calmly goes on with her grazing.
00:35:34.431">35:28">Meanwhile, our cultures colonized us into deeply distrusting the wild wisdom of our 00:35:39.231">35:35">beautiful animal bodies. From the earliest of ages we're taught to sit 00:35:50.191">still, be good, not fidget and most certainly not shake or express any 35:45">stuck charge or distressing emotion that needs to move through us. Our parents 00:35:53.431">were taught the same and their parents were taught the same and the ones that 00:36:06.511">came before them and so on. Trauma is not for repressing, for becoming 36:00">unconsciously identified with and then creating our culture from. Trauma needs to be tended to, 00:36:07.106" data-end="00:36:13.791">related to, and given the space to naturally resolve. It's a doorway, an opportunity, 00:36:19.718">36:14">through which we can come to know ourselves as inextricably part of the weaving of nature.

[36:23] 00:36:22.635" data-end="00:36:29.675">We can start doing this by just becoming curious. The next time you become reactive, 00:36:30.062" data-end="00:36:37.765">say for instance, someone says no to you for a request that you have for them or you see something, 00:36:38.533" data-end="00:36:45.845">36:39">on social media that triggers you, just notice what that feels like in your body.
00:36:46.626" data-end="00:36:57.765">36:47">And you don't need to judge it just start noticing the sensation, the 36:52">constriction, the heat, the numbness if there's numbness, just start noticing 00:37:02.645">36:58">what it feels like without judging it and just being curious and giving it the 00:37:15.812">37:03">space to be there and this is a really powerful simple first step towards 37:10">beginning to dismantle and dissolve trauma as culture in our bodies, in our 00:37:16.245" data-end="00:37:17.036">psyches and in our lives.

[37:17] 38:03" data-start="00:37:17.040" data-end="00:38:02.640">Music.

[38:04] 00:38:03.533" data-end="00:38:11.125">That's it for this episode. 38:05">we have in the pipeline include talking about desert bighorn sheep, talking to native experts 00:38:17.065">on the Saguaro to find out how indigenous cultures in the desert relate to that queen 00:38:23.425">of cacti. We're talking to someone who is combating the rise of poaching of reptiles 00:38:25.246">based on social media posts.
00:38:26.345" data-end="00:38:32.805">And many more to come. 38:28">Very likely, including episodes that you, our listenership, and our supporters and our 00:38:34.221">38:33">our friends suggest to us.
00:38:40.525">38:35">This is not a two-person operation. 38:37">It's got to have more people contributing, more shoulders 00:38:42.575">38:41">up against that wheel if we're going to move things.
00:38:44.466">38:43">And we look forward to hearing from you.
00:38:45.005" data-end="00:38:50.485">If you are one of those people that 38:47">likes to either talk on the phone or text people, 00:38:58.339">you can do either of those to us at 760-392-1996. 38:57">Thanks for joining us.
00:39:01.192">38:59">Thank you. 39:00">See you next time. We love you.

[39:01] 41:04" data-start="00:39:01.200" data-end="00:41:04.400">Music.

[41:05] 00:41:05.973">Where'd you go? Up here.
00:41:09.475" data-end="00:41:13.017">You picked a spot in the sun, Chris? I just wanted a view for a second.
00:41:14.857" data-end="00:41:17.576">41:15">I don't even know what to do with you sometimes.