S4E6: The Desert Speaks Out

Uncorrected Transcript

This transcript does not include the names of the individual speakers and interviewees.

0:00:01 - (Chris Clarke): 90 miles from Needles, the Desert Protection Podcast is made possible by listeners just like you. If you want to help us out, you can go to 90 miles from needles.com donate or text needles to 53555 think the deserts are barren wastelands? It's time for 90 miles from Neil's the Desert Protection Podcast. What's your name and where do you live? I'm Katie Joy and I live in the Friendly Hills neighborhood of Joshua Tree.

0:00:53 - (Chris Clarke): And why are you here? I'm here because I believe nature is more important than money and profit and capitalism and billionaires. I think that sums it up. Did I get it? Defend nature, Defund billionaires. Excellent. Thank you. You're welcome. Hello and welcome to 90 Miles from Needles, the Desert Protection Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Clark, and in this episode we will be listening to the voices of desert activists.

0:01:22 - (Chris Clarke): In the last week I went to two different events in which people were speaking or otherwise making their feelings known about two particular issues. The first one was a community meeting in Amargosa Valley, Nevada, just east of Death Valley national park, in which people were supporting the idea of barring new mining claims in the vicinity of Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge. And this is a topic that we've covered in a few different episodes so far, including quite recently.

0:01:47 - (Chris Clarke): A couple episodes ago, we were talking with Mason Voehl of the Amargosa Conservancy about this mineral withdrawal. The 27th was quite a remarkable night, although the community center that the meeting was held in was very echoey, and that will be obvious in the brief clips that we'll be sharing here. But it was really remarkable and it was some of the best of what human beings are all about. People saying, I would make more money if mining ramped up here, but my neighbors would suffer and I can't have that. So I support this mineral withdrawal and I want you to make it much longer.

0:02:20 - (Chris Clarke): My faith in humanity never gets entirely extinguished, but it has been flickering a little bit, and this meeting in Amargosa Valley definitely helped. The other event was a demonstration in Joshua Tree that was part of a nationwide barrage of demonstrations at national park sites and other protected lands protesting cuts to Land Management Agency staff, especially including in the National Park Service, which we talked about with my friend Kristen Brengle in the episode immediately previous to this one.

0:02:49 - (Chris Clarke): I think you'll enjoy hearing from the participants of both of those events, but first I want to dispense with something really quickly. It seems to me, and maybe it seems to you, like I spend a lot of time on this podcast asking for money. My mental image of the amount of time I spend is probably inflated because it's something I really don't like to do. And as a result, I think sometimes when I mention it, the requests are pretty pro forma, formulaic, contrived, boilerplatey, however you want to call it. This one's going to be a little different because it's very specific to right now, but we've been losing our donor base.

0:03:35 - (Chris Clarke): In November 2023, I put out a Giving Tuesday message and I mentioned that we had 120 monthly supporters. We don't have 120 monthly supporters at this point. I really love putting this podcast together. I love talking to y'all. I love talking to our colleagues in the desert protection movement. We're desert writers, desert artists. This is just a fulfilling job. And during the first season in 2022, I absorbed a lot of the costs of putting this podcast together out of my own personal bank account.

0:04:08 - (Chris Clarke): I had a job then that paid and I don't know, so I cannot do that now. This came to a head when I was getting ready to go to Amargosa Valley and I looked at the bank balance for the podcast and I ended up paying for gas and lodging for that trip out of my own account. And I can't keep doing that. I hate to say it. You probably saw some news coverage recently about billionaire Jeff Bezos determining that the Washington Post was never going to print any editorials that were critical of the Trump administration.

0:04:45 - (Chris Clarke): The Washington Post is unique only for its brazenness in that particular realm. And independent, non corporate, experienced journalists are going to be absolutely critical for us to get through the next four years and the next couple hundred years after that. I'd like to do my part. It's really up to you. $5 a month. If we can get a Couple hundred new $5 a month donors, we can be hiring freelancers doing all kinds of stuff to bring you news about the deserts and what they face and how we can defend them.

0:05:24 - (Chris Clarke): 90 miles from needles.com donate along those lines, I want to thank Eva Soltes for her generous donation. That was the one donation we've gotten in the last five weeks. Eva's a good friend, my landlord, for about six years. Eva, you are awesome. 90 miles from needles.com donate Amargosa Valley is a town of about a thousand people, a little bit over a thousand. It's about 90 miles northwest of Las Vegas, 35 miles northwest of Pahrump, just east of Death Valley National Park.

0:05:58 - (Chris Clarke): Amargosa Valley is a relatively new town as Nevada goes. The majority of the houses that are in Amargosa Valley weren't built until after World War II, and the town had significant growth since the early 1990s. But it's still a small town. You could pretty easily drive through and miss the town entirely. It's extremely spread out. There isn't a huge concentration of buildings anywhere in the town. There's a little cluster of them on Amargosa Farm Road where the community center is. That's where we recorded these comments.

0:06:30 - (Chris Clarke): At the intersection of Nevada Route 373 and Route 95, there's a huge gas station and what seems to be a souvenir store that turns out actually to be a legal brothel. You might be a little surprised to learn that a thousand plus people live there. Back in the 1980s, you're far more likely to see bumper stickers on local vehicles that said kill the pupfish than to see any enviro bumper stickers. The zeitgeist in the Amargosa pretty much from Beatty all the way down to Pahrump and beyond, Was that environmental protection of the 26 or so endemic species at Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge or the groundwater that those species rely on was a stab in the economic heart of the Amargosa region.

0:07:16 - (Chris Clarke): And that's why it's quite remarkable that so many ordinary people living in Amargosa Valley, Nevada and nearby turned out to advocate for strict limits on mining activity in the area to protect the pupfish and the Amargosa niterwort and a whole lot of different species that are found in the Amargosa Basin and nowhere else. We'll link in the show notes to previous episodes on this, but essentially for the last couple of years, Ash Meadows and its neighbors have been locked in combat with a Canadian mining firm called Rover Critical Minerals, which wants to mine lithium from the soil beneath the Amargosa Valley.

0:07:49 - (Chris Clarke): And that threatens to dry up wells and the springs that the wildlife Ash Meadows depend on. Just the wrong place to do this. And the Devil's Hole Pupfish and its neighbors in Amargosa Valley and other communities nearby are deciding that they're on the same side. It's really inspiring. So in the cavernous Echoey community center in Amargosa Valley, about 150 people or so gathered on the evening of February 27th to communicate with the Bureau of Land Management that they support the current two year ban on new mining claims, the mineral withdrawal, and they want it made permanent.

0:08:28 - (Chris Clarke): So let's listen to a few of Those folks speaking up in favor of their community and the natural communities of Ash Meadows. And we'll start with my absolute favorite writer from Tecopa, California. Hello, my name is Claire Watkins. Thank you for being here and listening today. I grew up on the Amargosa river down in Tecopa and I played volleyball in this gym as a kid. And as I see it, this river kept me alive.

0:08:57 - (Chris Clarke): And I think we should repay the favor. Not to mention I think it's really, really morally wrong to extinct species. Extinction is not just a regular type of loss. It's really forever. And there's all of us to do that to the planet that is keeping us in these communities. Amargosa Valley has already really borne more than its fair share environmental injustice, which we can start counting that wherever. But I want to start with the over 1000 nuclear bombs detonated just up the road.

0:09:37 - (Chris Clarke): So enough is enough. And I don't think this community should be asked to bear this burden, nor should any of the planets and animals and the water itself. Thank you. Now, I group these next two comments together because they have the same theme. That theme is basically, sure, mining could make me rich, but I would rather have a thriving community and happy neighbors than that money. It's just really a beautiful way of putting community ahead of your own private interest and private gain.

0:10:16 - (Chris Clarke): Let's listen. Good evening. My name is Claudia. Doctor. I live in the far northwest section of an opposite valley. I lived there for about 13 years when my husband and I worked out here to retire and build our home. I'm going to say something that's probably going to get me carried out on a rail here. If I don't. If you don't give me a chance to finish. Okay. I am probably one of the few people in this valley who could potentially die from mining in Amargosa Valley. And let me explain to you why.

0:10:45 - (Chris Clarke): Because of where I live. My well casing is 250ft deep. My well pump is 170ft deep. The water in my well is 100ft deep. If the aquifer drops 40ft, I'm still going to have a lot of water to pump. I'm far enough away from any potential mining site that my water will become out nice and clean before it gets potentially contaminated by mining contaminants. Secondly, the other next point is that in addition to having a good well, I have a 99 square foot stick built house on 100 acre lot or 10 acre lot that would be the perfect home for someone coming out here to manage a mine.

0:11:29 - (Chris Clarke): But I am adamantly against any kind of mining here. I against it because of the damage it will do to my neighbors. I don't want to see my neighbors have to put out tens of thousands of dollars to drill deeper wells. I don't want to see my neighbors lose their property value because they're too close to mine. I don't want to see my neighbors ever pack up and move. I'm also a conservationist at heart.

0:11:55 - (Chris Clarke): I want Ash Meadows and the beauty of Amcos Valley to be here for my children and grandchildren, great grandchildren and their grandchildren to enjoy. In 100 years. I am 100% against any kind of mineral extraction in Amcosa Valley for not only just the next 20 years, for the next century, forever. Thank you. One of the existing mining claimants is the proposed withdrawal area. Township 18, South Range 52 East, Sections 20 through 29, the Copper Giant Door body.

0:12:33 - (Chris Clarke): I would be honored to relinquish my claims to further the protection of the Amargosa Desert. Whatever impact that has on me fails in comparison to the impact of allowing mining in the Amargosa. When the General mining Act of 1872 was passed, it was a time where lone prospectors come to the desert with their donkeys and a pickaxe. It never anticipated and has never been modified to account for the destructive mining techniques used at our times.

0:12:59 - (Chris Clarke): My wife and I stepped hundreds of miles on foot hiking through the Amargos and the surrounding mountains. And the loss of this delicate place would be a terrible day. In my view, the protection of the Amargos is non negotiable and this withdrawal must be passed. Thank you. That's just a sampling of about two dozen people that spoke. A lot of organizations were represented. It was an inspiring event.

0:13:32 - (Chris Clarke): And then I went to my hotel room, got a good night's sleep, I headed home, got another good night's sleep. And then the very next day, I got up and went into downtown Joshua Tree, where I saw about 300 people, a lot of whom I knew, a lot of whom I'd never seen before, making a lot of noise and smiling and laughing and cheering when passersby and vehicles would honk at their signs, which was happening a lot.

0:13:58 - (Chris Clarke): Commercial drivers were honking ambulances, park ranger vehicles. I found a few people who had some really interesting stories to tell, starting with Katie Joy, who you heard at the top of the episode. So let's just dig in and listen to the folks that had something to say in Joshua Tree on Saturday. I'll just let them talk without interruption. Thanks for talking to us. What's your name? My name is Octavia Scott, and I'm a city council member in 29 Palms, California.

0:14:26 - (Chris Clarke): And I'm assuming you live in 29 from that. Absolutely, sir. And why are you here? I'm here to stand in solidarity with our park rangers that have been laid off with the recent cuts at the federal level. I think it's important as a council member that I stand up for this because, you know, it has an economic impact on our community. A lot of our economy is driven off of the national park and tourism, and so I want to make sure that we can figure out a way to reinstate those park rangers and to protect our national parks.

0:14:56 - (Chris Clarke): Do you have concerns about what might happen in the park and. Or the surrounding community? I do. I think that we run the risk of having rangers who are, you know, overworked because there's not a lot of staff, and that could have impacts of, you know, people maybe not showing up to work. And there are safety concerns with a lot of the tourism and the tourists that enter our park. They're unfamiliar with this desert environment, and sometimes they don't bring enough water. Sometimes they get lost.

0:15:21 - (Chris Clarke): They depend on those park rangers as an asset to be able to provide them information. Great answers. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir. I appreciate it. This person is in the employ of the federal government indirectly, and so we decided to leave her name out. My name is. And where do you live? I live in Twentynine Palms. Why are you here? I am here to support the park and its rangers and the park partners that work with the park.

0:15:47 - (Chris Clarke): I'm here standing in solidarity with them. Do you have particular concerns about what might go on with the park this year if people aren't reinstated? Yeah. So we just lost a bunch of rangers, and they're really important rangers, people that, you know, we need here to collect fees to go on search and rescue. And already this park is facing. It's already understaffed. And so when we lose the critical people that we need, then, you know, people are going to get hurt out there. Visitors are going to get hurt out there. We're going to have longer lines. There already is a long line on the west entrance. And so, yeah, we are.

0:16:29 - (Chris Clarke): We want to prevent that from happening even more. So. And so now it's just going to get worse with time if they keep firing people. Thank you. Yeah. Parks art toys for billionaire boys Parks art toys millionaire boys Parks art to. What's your name? Patricia Domay. And where do you live? I live in landers I'm a Landroid. Excellent. So why are you here? Because it's emotional. This is our park. This is the people's park.

0:17:02 - (Chris Clarke): We love our park. We absolutely love it, and we spend time in it, and everybody comes from all over the world to see this park, and we, we have to have the rangers, we have to have the people that clean things up. This is absolutely despicable. Absolutely despicable. I am very emotional about this because everybody loves this park and I live about 20 minutes from here just to come down and have the freedom to see these beautiful, you know, this snakes, the lizards and everything.

0:17:40 - (Chris Clarke): And it's so well taken care of by these people that devote their life to this park. And it's just. It's despicable. It's just despicable. I'm San Khalsa and I'm an artist and an activist who is here standing with our community to protect Joshua Tree national park as well as all of our national parks and public lands. It belongs to us. It belongs to the people. And to bring in someone like Elon Musk to make cuts on something that he has no connection to at all is despicable.

0:18:23 - (Chris Clarke): The American people and the world care about these places. This is our way of protecting the natural world. It's our way of providing natural spaces for all of the human and non humans who want to enjoy what an experience, what nature is, because the rest of our world has been totally developed. And the fact that rangers that protect our land, this is not Trump's land. This is not Musk's land. This is our land. This is that rangers who work to protect and are so committed to these places are being fired for absolutely no reason.

0:19:18 - (Chris Clarke): This national park is the Joshua Tree national park, and Joshua Trees are threatened by climate change, by fires, because of invasive species. And, you know, there's a potential loss of Joshua trees by the next century of over 90%. So we need to be here doing everything that we can, the rangers and the community, to mitigate all of these threats to Joshua Trees and protect this place. Parks art toys for billionaire boys.

0:19:54 - (Chris Clarke): Parks art toys for millionaire boys. What's your name and where do you live? My name is Christopher Cole and I am in North Joshua Tree. And why are you here? I'm here because I love the medicine of this land. Do you have particular concerns about park staffing interfering with your ability to experience that? Oh, no question. I've lived here for a decade and a half and watched the numbers of people showing up at the park just skyrocket.

0:20:26 - (Chris Clarke): And there's no question that staffing helps keep the place pristine and enjoyable. And with the numbers of people coming, we can't afford to lose staff. When I first moved here, you could tell when it was sort of high season because you might get stuck behind some folks driving through the park for the first time, creeping because it's so mesmerizing. And as a local, you learn to have some patience around that.

0:20:57 - (Chris Clarke): It's different now because the numbers are outrageous and there's a mile long line just to get into the park. So there's no way you can convince me that we don't need the staff. And Ben some. That's excellent. Thank you, Christopher. All right. My name is Sarah. Don Albani. And where do you live? I live in Landers, California. Getting a lot of landroids today. That's great. You're holding a sign that put a picture of in our show notes. It's a beautiful impromptu drawing of a bighorn ram. What's behind that?

0:21:36 - (Chris Clarke): When I get the opportunity to encounter one of these creatures, you know, one of my kin here on this planet, whether it's a bighorn or Mojave rattler or a roadrunner or great horned owl, it's sublime, you know, it's a priceless treasure. You know, Trump can go look for the gold in Fort Knox, but I'm right here and this is it for me, you know. And so, yeah, I'm out here to bring voice to this silent witness to this terrible atrocity of disregard for our relationship to the earth and this effort to privatize absolutely everything, including our government, these rangers, these parks, these places that we cherish.

0:22:26 - (Chris Clarke): I'm here to speak on their behalf every little living thing that I am inextricably tied to. So that's why I let this painting just come through today, because I figured I wanted to say something quippy and smart. But this is what came out instead. My name is Cyrus Asari. And where do you live? Right now I'm with my parents in Long Beach. Since I've been fired from my position where I was living for the past year in Silver City, New Mexico, the third question I've been asking everybody is why are you here?

0:22:58 - (Chris Clarke): I think I probably know, but why don't you give it a shot anyway? I'm here because I have a lifelong passion for conservation and natural resource stewardship. I have been a land steward since I graduated high school and for several years now, working across several states in the west, including the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management. And I have Just been separated from a life passion. My permanent position, my entire trail crew in the Gila National Forest, we've all been fired.

0:23:28 - (Chris Clarke): Thousands of people in national parks, national forests, BLM lands, fish and wildlife preserves have all been unjustly and illegally fired. And this isn't just about our jobs. This is about the protection of. Of public lands is an entire concept. The Gila is a really important place in the history of land protection in this country. Is the oldest wilderness, right? Yes. And it's where Otto Leopold did a lot of his work.

0:23:51 - (Chris Clarke): It's the largest wilderness in the southwestern region. And it's very important to many people culturally and historically. And presently, my primary position was in wilderness trails maintenance and reconstruction. So me and my crew would fix and maintain the hiking trails and horse trails across the wilderness. But we also had secondary duties in fighting wildland fire, in cleaning campgrounds, in educating the public, and in lots of other duties around the forest.

0:24:24 - (Chris Clarke): How many folks from your crew and elsewhere in the Gila got the same bad news you did? My entire trail crew was fired and that was eight people. There's no more field going trail staff left on the forest. I believe the rest of the people in my forest totaled to about 29 plus. People are still being fired. People are still uncertain about their job security. Nobody's safe. Do you know whether the recent court ruling from a couple days ago might affect the Gila or is that too far, too far out? Do you know from what I understand, the recent court ruling has paused these illegal firings, but it is not given anybody's jobs back. It's a hopeful sign that the legal process will carry us to a point to maybe where we can get reinstated and create our positions again.

0:25:09 - (Chris Clarke): But we have to keep fighting. Well, I really appreciate you talking to us, and that's absolutely critical work that goes unsung a lot of the time. The trail maintenance and repair. I mean, it's a public safety issue, obviously. And just on behalf of our listeners, thank you for doing what you were able to do and for being here. Yeah. And I love Joshua Tree National Park. I grew up coming here. It's, you know, it's about every national park and national forest across the country. And I have a connection with this place as well. And I feel for everybody around Joshua Tree in Southern California who is fighting for the protection of these lands. Thank you. Thank you very much for listening.

0:25:47 - (Chris Clarke): Thanks. And that wraps up this episode of 90 Miles from Needles, the desert protection podcast. Again, I want to thank Eva Soltis for her generous donation. You can join her if you haven't already at 9zeromilesfromneedles.com donate big thanks as well to the wonderful Ali Irwin, who helped round up people to talk to me at Joshua Tree, and that's how you get an associate producer credit for a podcast episode.

0:26:17 - (Chris Clarke): And as always, thanks to our voiceover guy Joe Jeffrey, our podcast artist Martine Mancha Brightside Studio, who wrote and performed our theme song Moody Western, and you for listening, especially if you made it this far. We're going through a little spate of cold weather and a lot of wind. You probably noticed some wind in the background as I recorded this. It's kind of nice to have a break from unseasonal heat.

0:26:42 - (Chris Clarke): 90 degrees in late February is just absolutely redonk, as the people who used to be kids say these days. Nonetheless, if you're going hiking in this weather, which is really pleasant weather, don't forget you're still in the desert. You still need to take more water than you think you need. Always let people know where you want to go. It's not just heat that'll hurt you in the desert. There are rocks to trip over and hit your head.

0:27:09 - (Chris Clarke): Just all kinds of stuff. Everything your mom warned you about could actually happen out here. Generally doesn't. But you don't want to be that one person out of a thousand. So take care of yourself. Do get out and enjoy, and I'll see you at the next watering hole. Bye now. 90 miles from Needles is a production of the Desert Advocacy Media Network.